The Wandering Monster
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Kine
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Post by Aodhfin on Dec 9, 2014 18:04:52 GMT
I am not expecting people to jump right on the system bus and be ready for an instant change, that being said I think it is important we discuss the new book a little bit. If we implement the new system and rules, a lot of stuff will change, a lot of characters will find their power 'niches' altered or shattered, and there will be quite a bit of trial and experiment.
This thread is for people to express what they like, don't like, want to make sure what stays around, want to make sure what doesn't stay around, and all that fun jazz. If you have questions, ask them. If you have concerns, state them. The only thing you cannot do is argue and belittle others. If someone states something you don't like, or someone wants something to stay you absolutely want gone, be polite and say your side (not your feelings, emotions, or disliking for whatever it is they brought up).
Some key points people may want to bring up.
• Bloodlines • New Rules • New Disciplines vs. Old Disciplines • Flavor or Theme • Character outcome
With that, let the thread begin ...
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Post by Nathaniel Fairchild on Dec 9, 2014 18:20:19 GMT
The only thing I'm really curious about is would people be remaking their characters once the change is implemented. I'm also curious with that since a few of the people that I'm talking to about this group would need to know that info before they create their characters. I really don't have a horse in this fight since I don't know what the new rules are. I'm currently waiting for my book to arrive and I haven't downloaded the pdf...yet.
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Post by Alejandro Moreno on Dec 9, 2014 18:23:18 GMT
I LOVE the flavor the revised rules have, lends itself better to intrigue imho. Always enjoy the battered/surrender optional rule. The 8 again mechanic seems to be very prevalent throughout the book how do you think that would be best expressed with our altered rolling scheme? What are your thoughts on he dev modified bloodlines like the shadow and the asp or the Neglatu? The new beast mechanics are cool in a rock paper scissors type way, detachment rules are interesting but i'd be curious how we'd implement them online. Lots of cool devotions and neat how some powers are passive always on with added effects with vitae expenditure. EDIT: I'm very curious to hear the Storytellers' initial impression of it
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Post by Alejandro Moreno on Dec 9, 2014 18:25:06 GMT
Not really constructive to this thread but i do HATE the layout and graphic design of Blood and Smoke, very difficult to navigate.
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Post by Nathaniel Fairchild on Dec 9, 2014 18:42:13 GMT
Welcome to most White Wolf/Onyx Path/whatever they are called now books. It's almost as bad as the Palladium books or the older DnD books.
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You're gonna bob and weave out of the path of a bullet? That I'd like to see.
Ancient
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Post by Angela Sisco on Dec 9, 2014 22:11:48 GMT
As for the layout of the graphic design of the book, gross. I would agree with Jim that navigating that text was a bit nauseating. Once I got past that headache, I really liked the break down of character creation.
I'm still on the fence about mechanics, mostly because I haven't finished the book. I like what I read and I really like how this is more geared toward just player/PC than the player and the World of Darkness.
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I'm a Nightmare dressed as a Daydream
Elder
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Post by Quinn Mason on Dec 9, 2014 22:40:50 GMT
They really changed how Majesty and Nightmare work. Its interesting.
#abitdrunkmakesspellinghard
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Storyteller & Admin
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Post by Admin on Dec 10, 2014 13:08:20 GMT
• Will characters be radically different? No. Will they change to some degree in flavor? Yes.
The new book changes the setup around a bit and creates a strong form of anti-hero. They are not heroes in the least though, they are murdering sociopaths. I say anti-hero because there is usually some form of dramatic wrong-doing that caused their current condition. Now while that doesn't need to be the case, the ability to grasp for that thematic is much easier this time around. The introduction of 'Touchstones' in the new humanity system does quite a bit to humanize kindred, providing them with built in drama as they either stay stagnate, or ascend/descend the humanity ladder. You can find information about the Touchstones on page 87 or 88 I believe, and it will give you some examples of good touchstones.
There is way to much for me to simply lay out a straight answer here, but at its core ... the characters will remain the same or only change as so far as you want them too! Now if you meant will we have to change the character sheets, the answer is simple ... oh hell yeah, everyone will have to do some editting with the help of an ST.
• Bloodlines? Bloodlines anyone?
As of this moment, i'm going to be allowing people to keep their current bloodlines with the way they are set in the original books. The reason is pretty simple at this point ... there really is just not enough information on the new bloodlines. Once a new book comes out with some, we will be able to see just how radically different the bloodline system is. Even the stuff they put up on their website as errata is some what cryptic.
That being said, even when the new material comes outs, I will be allowing people to keep their original bloodlines until that bloodline is covered in a new book. This may change, depending on the power spike, or decrease in power, of the new bloodlines. At this point it is just to early to tell. For now, no fears on a sudden bloodline explusion though.
• Dice, 8:3 system, and Blood/Smoke system?
The dice system we are currently using will likely be trashed unless I can figure out some way to reconcile the new system rules with the old custom rules for LARP. In this new system, dramatic failures and success actually matter for quite a few things; including the BEAT system. If you are unfamiliar with the BEAT System, it is basically a point system in the game which allows players to exchange accumulated 'BEATS' for experiece ( 5 Beats = 1 Experience). You gain BEATS in a number of ways, and they are pretty similiar to the idea of 'achievements' in videogames. One way to gain a BEAT is if you fail at a roll ... you can opt to make it a dramatic failure, and if you opt to make it a dramatic failure you will gain 1 beat.
It is an interesting system.
Worse case we will be going to a more normalized system, using a new hybrid of larp/TT rules and rolling multiple dice. If the system is radically different, we will cover the new rules and make sure everyone is on the same page.
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Post by Jean d'Eau on Dec 10, 2014 13:31:28 GMT
I think I'll play devil's advocate here and ask what might be a stupid question. Is there a reason we are wanting to switch to a new system? I have not read the new rules, but it sounds like they changed quite a bit. Do the new rules work with the source materials (i.e. Requiem supplement books) that are already published? If not, I might suggest that we stick with the original core rules. Most of us already know the old rules and have the materials for it. I really don't know if I have a ton of time to learn a bunch of new rules. Granted, I have never really focused much on the rules and focus more on the story, but I hate not being able to bring my A-game to the table/forum. Just my $0.02.
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Storyteller & Admin
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Post by Admin on Dec 10, 2014 14:12:58 GMT
That is the thing right now, and i'll reitterate on it a bit.
I am not for sure that we are switching over, myself and the other STs are still reading.
When I do mention the new rules and what will happen if we do switch, i'll say this much ... the old rules still apply. We are not talking about a brand new system from the ground up, however we are talking about a system that makes more use of the story elements and has to evolve a bit to do so.
This thread at the moment, is for people to voice their concerns, questions, and all manner of things ... be it on one side of the fence or the other.
I can't really reply with much more at the moment, given I am substituting and typing this while the kids are busy working on some coding ... but i'll try to respond in a more detailed manner when I can! ^_^
Edit 1 -
What I can say about the new system vs. the old system is the following though ...
The Old System for Requiem was created with mostly combat and physical action in mind, it was focused on that aspect rather than a story aspect. The new system is much more balanced in terms of giving social characters some footing, as well as other things. They are two very different styles, even though they are (At their core) the same system.
It is comparedly ... 30 days of night vs. Lestat in the hunger games. Just to give a quick comparison. A link to the PDF is in the other blood and smoke thread!
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Post by Alexander Turner on Dec 10, 2014 16:11:41 GMT
I don't have a lot to go on here. I spent my slow workday yesterday reading the new book. I was only half-way through learning the existing rules, since I am only truly familiar with OWoD. Mechanically, its just another set of rules for me to attempt to learn and understand. I'm on standbye to know however if I should keep working at the existing rules or concentrate on the new ones.
This new set seems to follow WW's trend to seeing what interests the players of the game and then developing the game in those directions. The entire new spin screams modern cinema influences for vampires with heavy elements of sensuality (Hammer horror to modern vampire movies both high end like "Inteview" and the good old fashion B-movies), with foes very much like things introduced in movies like Blade 2 and Daywalkers.
So, if these rules and amplified concepts are implemented, it will be interesting to see how the characters change and the players react to them.
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The Wandering Monster
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Post by Aodhfin on Dec 12, 2014 3:09:18 GMT
Alright, before I go into any questions (which will be the next post), I need to make something abundantly clear that I misunderstood (until I talked with Josh and once more, he pointed to the err in my ways like a game god on high watching over all). The book we are all currently discussing is 'Blood and Smoke: The Strix Chronicle', which is a book that was developed with a newly altered (and mostly finished) system. The 'Blood and Smoke' book came out last year (2013) and is a precursor to the 'Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition' book that will be coming out within the next month or two.
You may ask: "Oh silly and scary ST, what does this mean?"
What it means is that the system in the Blood and Smoke book is the system that we may be moving to, and the 2nd edition book (true book) has not come out yet. The good people over at Onyx Path Publishing have confirmed that anyone who bought the 'Smoke and Blood' book will receive a free updated copy with the new 2nd edition cover. Why is this important? Because it tells us they are mostly leaving the new rule system as it is, and not making any large sweeping changes (that they have announced at all).
You may ask: "Seriously, wtf does this mean for us?"
It lamens, the system in this book is the 2nd edition system ... but they may make slight tweaks and small changes when the official 2nd Edition VTR book releases. At least this is what I have gathered from their official news releases and blogs. If you have any questions about all of this, you should most likely be asking those as well in this thread.
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The Wandering Monster
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Post by Aodhfin on Dec 12, 2014 4:01:42 GMT
Alright, now to highlight a few things ...
This is, for the most part, very true. White-wolf isn't really in control but the people who took it over (some of which are from white-wolf) tried to adapt the material to fit what a majority of players (right or wrong as they may be, since it is perspective) had been complaining about for some time. A large concern that many of the more 'vocal' individuals in the Camarilla use to point at was the lack of impact social characters had in game. Once more, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with them ... i've seen mechanically powerful social characters topple regimes from the shadows, and i've seen high status invictus elders sit in a chair and whine about how their persuasion pull doesn't do anything.
Everything is a matter of perspective with white-wolf games, given their openness.
That being said, the alterations they have made allow for a very heavy approach to social intrigue and social interactions between characters. A good example of this would be a new mechanic called 'Predator's Aura' which replies 'Predator's Taint'. For those of you who do not know, Predator's Taint is a mechanic that occurs when kindred meet each other for the first time (or after extended periods of absence from one another). The kindred are basically measuring the beast that they each have, which can result in frenzy sometimes (anger or fear).
In Lamen ... the two roll an extended frenzy check, and if one fails they frenzy (if they are higher BP, they anger frenzy. If they are the lower BP, they fear frenzy).
This may sound like a bad rule that would cause a mass amount of shit to happen during Gatherings ... but, well ... it really is. I enjoy it because it adds a bit of drama, but it can quickly make a fun game turn into a literal shit storm that no one wants to deal with; which is why the Camarilla did not enforce it and we give you the option to use it here on the forum.
The new altered system has removed this, to my knowledge, and replaced it with 'Predator Aura'. (page 91 begin)
I will not go into the complete overhaul, but effectively it allows you to 'exercise your beast' over another and instill a certain behavior in them.
Now, I am over simplifying this. At its core though, it is meant to show that they have tried to improve the quality of the social game in this new system as well as several other elements of the core system (not removing it, but making slight changes so it is more coherent and synergizes with other rules). If the kindred uses this on another, they enter a contest, make the rolls and their is an outcome that lasts (but only for the remainder of THAT SCENE, nothing permanent). If the aggressor wins in the 'Lashing Out' contest, they gain the condition described. If the opposition wins, they impose the condition of their own beast.
I am going to end it here for now (with this post), since i've already make a block of text ... lol
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"Learn to mind your manners. Then your pain will end."
Ghoul
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Post by Malcolm Bennett-Grey on Dec 12, 2014 9:35:12 GMT
I have no objections, only lots and lots of enthusiasm. I feel that that the rules are simplified, streamlined, and empower social concepts. Vampires are ferocious, monstrous killing machines -- and highly effective social predators. Basically, Blood & Smoke lets vampires be more vampirey in a greater variety of ways. Also, Touchstones are a brilliant idea. I love how Blood & Smoke strongly encourages players to carefully consider a character's mortal life, and integrate that into their night-to-night existences. Aging relatives and ruined opportunities not only drive the story but strongly influence the character from a mechanical standpoint.
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